• Zope.org Redux

  • Let's get the content in order

    from optilude on Mar 30, 2008 11:11 AM
    Hi guys,
    
    I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to help 
    flesh out content, but in the meantime, I wanted to ask a few questions. 
    I think our next goal needs to be to publish this to the community. The 
    site is looking great, and editing content is nice and simple. If we can 
    get the skeleton content in place, we can farm out provision of other 
    content to other people and gain some wide community support.
    
    Here's what I think we should do:
    
      1. Agree on the exact names and order of sections
    
      2. Agree on the purpose of each section
    
      3. Get a succinct statement of "what is Zope" and how do the various 
    bits fit together (the Venn diagram)
    
      4. Create a skeleton that includes space for sub-projects (Grok, CMF, 
    Zope 2 etc)
    
      5. Get Oliver and Denis to do a style review and maybe tidy up some of 
    the CSS used for content
    
      6. Let others lose on it!
    
    I think we should get 1-4 done this week; it's not a lot of work.
    
    To get the ball rolling, I'd like to suggest a change to the top-level 
    folder structure (the main tabs).
    
    Currently, the sections read "home", "get", "taste", "learn", 
    "community" and "foundation". I think this is a bit out of sync with the 
    last wireframes. Here's what I would suggest we have:
    
        - Home: Front page, mostly marketing speak
    
        - Get: Download instructions for grokproject; a sub-page shows a 
    zopeproject installation; another sub-page shows Zope 2 and CMF downloads
    
        - Taste: Some "interesting" code examples, screenshots and/or 
    screencasts that make people excited about "the Zope way".
    
        - Projects: This page contains the venn diagram with some text about 
    how the various sub-projects fit together. We then have a sub-folder for 
    each sub-project where we have a standard set of headings: Get, Learn 
    and Community. For some, it may just be a link (i.e. for Grok)
    
        - Community: Provides links to the various mailing lists and chat rooms
    
        - Foundation: Links to the Foundation web site (can be integrated later)
    
    The obvious casualty here is "Learn", which basically becomes a feature 
    of each project. I think this makes sense, since the "Learn" for Grok is 
    quite a bit different to the "Learn" for CMF, say.
    
    What do you think?
    
    Cheers,
    Martin
    
    Thread Outline:
  • Re: Let's get the content in order

    from philikon on Mar 31, 2008 04:49 AM
    On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
    > I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to  
    > help flesh out content,
    
    I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something  
    useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you  
    might've seen, I didn't come up with much.
    
    In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should  
    be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the  
    board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok  
    people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more.  Naturally this can  
    be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but perhaps  
    we can come up with a general idea first and produce key messages.  
    Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out to pages.
    
    
    Some feedback about the site:
    
    * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style  
    which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should  
    all have different sizes.
    
    * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the  
    "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but  
    even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up.
    
    
    • Re: Let's get the content in order

      from oliver on Mar 31, 2008 04:52 AM
      Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo?
      
      On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
      
      > On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
      >> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to  
      >> help flesh out content,
      >
      > I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something  
      > useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you  
      > might've seen, I didn't come up with much.
      >
      > In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should  
      > be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the  
      > board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok  
      > people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more.  Naturally this  
      > can be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but  
      > perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and produce key  
      > messages. Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out  
      > to pages.
      >
      >
      > Some feedback about the site:
      >
      > * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style  
      > which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should  
      > all have different sizes.
      >
      > * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the  
      > "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but  
      > even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up.
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735
      > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
      > .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
      > questions.
      >
      
      
      Oliver Ruhm
      +43 664 434 76 54
      www.wz-bfg.com
      
      Be safe with
      Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts
      www.rhesus.at
      
      
      • Re: Let's get the content in order

        from optilude on Mar 31, 2008 04:57 AM
        Oliver - http://zode01.lovelysystems.com has the latest version of the
        site at any time.
        
        Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with?
        
        Martin
        
        On 31/03/2008, Oliver Ruhm <oliver@...> wrote:
        >
        >  Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo?
        >
        >
        >  On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
        >
        >  > On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
        >  >> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to
        >  >> help flesh out content,
        >  >
        >  > I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something
        >  > useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you
        >  > might've seen, I didn't come up with much.
        >  >
        >  > In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should
        >  > be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the
        >  > board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok
        >  > people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more.  Naturally this
        >  > can be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but
        >  > perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and produce key
        >  > messages. Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out
        >  > to pages.
        >  >
        >  >
        >  > Some feedback about the site:
        >  >
        >  > * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style
        >  > which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should
        >  > all have different sizes.
        >  >
        >  > * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the
        >  > "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but
        >  > even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up.
        >  >
        >  >
        >  >
        >  > --
        >  > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735
        >  > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@...
        >  > .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for
        >  > questions.
        >  >
        >
        >
        >
        > Oliver Ruhm
        >  +43 664 434 76 54
        >  www.wz-bfg.com
        >
        >  Be safe with
        >  Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts
        >  www.rhesus.at
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  --
        >  Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953526717
        >
        > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@....  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for questions.
        >
        >
        
        • Re: Let's get the content in order

          from philikon on Mar 31, 2008 05:04 AM
          On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:57 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
          > Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with?
          
          Nowhere really. I wrote stuff, then discarded it again and played with  
          the online site a little (tried to give the front page a shot as Oli  
          designed it, and failed as you can see ;)).
          
          
          • Re: Let's get the content in order

            from optilude on Mar 31, 2008 10:52 AM
            Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
            
            Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
            previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least
            Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
            
            I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
            Oliver - would you be able to provide a few images if I sketch them
            out? I'm thinking about sectoin heads here.
            
            Martijn, I'd be very happy if you could help with some of the text,
            since I know you've had a go at this before.
            
            Cheers,
            Martin
            
            On 31/03/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> wrote:
            > On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:57 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
            >  > Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with?
            >
            >
            > Nowhere really. I wrote stuff, then discarded it again and played with
            >  the online site a little (tried to give the front page a shot as Oli
            >  designed it, and failed as you can see ;)).
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >  --
            >  Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206954272200
            >
            > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@....  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for questions.
            >
            >
            
            • Re: Let's get the content in order

              from philikon on Apr 01, 2008 08:18 AM
              On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
              > Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
              >
              > Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
              > previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least
              > Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
              
              I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this,  
              but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time  
              constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to  
              promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to  
              depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise  
              I'll never get over with them.
              
              > I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
              
              Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key  
              messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit  
              by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
              
              
              • Re: Let's get the content in order

                from optilude on Apr 01, 2008 08:37 AM
                On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> wrote:
                > On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                >  > Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
                >  >
                >  > Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
                >  > previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least
                >  > Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
                >
                >
                > I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this,
                >  but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time
                >  constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to
                >  promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to
                >  depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise
                >  I'll never get over with them.
                
                Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code?
                
                I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure
                because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see
                myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :)
                
                >  > I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
                >
                >
                > Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key
                >  messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit
                >  by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
                
                Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I think
                make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up.
                
                Martin
                
                • Re: Let's get the content in order

                  from philikon on Apr 01, 2008 11:11 AM
                  On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                  > On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...>  
                  > wrote:
                  >> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                  >>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
                  >>>
                  >>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
                  >>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least
                  >>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this,
                  >> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time
                  >> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to
                  >> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to
                  >> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise
                  >> I'll never get over with them.
                  >
                  > Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code?
                  
                  Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :)
                  
                  > I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure
                  > because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see
                  > myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :)
                  >
                  >>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key
                  >> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit
                  >> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
                  >
                  > Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I think
                  > make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up.
                  
                  In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject  
                  installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most  
                  popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2).
                  
                  
                  • Re: Let's get the content in order

                    from oliver on Apr 01, 2008 11:54 AM
                    I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration.
                    
                    
                    
                    On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
                    
                    > On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                    >> On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...>  
                    >> wrote:
                    >>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                    >>>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
                    >>>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least
                    >>>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this,
                    >>> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time
                    >>> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to
                    >>> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to
                    >>> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise
                    >>> I'll never get over with them.
                    >>
                    >> Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code?
                    >
                    > Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :)
                    >
                    >> I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure
                    >> because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see
                    >> myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :)
                    >>
                    >>>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key
                    >>> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then  
                    >>> bit
                    >>> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
                    >>
                    >> Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I  
                    >> think
                    >> make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up.
                    >
                    > In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject  
                    > installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most  
                    > popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2).
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207062711959
                    > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
                    > .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
                    > questions.
                    >
                    
                    
                    Oliver Ruhm
                    +43 664 434 76 54
                    www.wz-bfg.com
                    
                    Be safe with
                    Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts
                    www.rhesus.at
                    
                    
                    • Re: Let's get the content in order

                      from kteague on Apr 01, 2008 12:29 PM
                      On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Oliver Ruhm wrote:
                      
                      >
                      > I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration.
                      >
                      
                      Awww ... I think it's easily the best illustration of gonch I've ever  
                      seen on any web framework web site.
                      
                      
                    • Re: Let's get the content in order

                      from batlogg on Apr 02, 2008 03:14 AM
                      On 01.04.2008, at 17:54, Oliver Ruhm wrote:
                      >
                      > I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration.
                      
                      i really like it!!!!
                      
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
                      >
                      >> On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                      >>> On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen  
                      >>> <philipp@...> wrote:
                      >>>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
                      >>>>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my
                      >>>>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at  
                      >>>>> least
                      >>>>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this,
                      >>>> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time
                      >>>> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to
                      >>>> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you  
                      >>>> to
                      >>>> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise
                      >>>> I'll never get over with them.
                      >>>
                      >>> Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code?
                      >>
                      >> Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :)
                      >>
                      >>> I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure
                      >>> because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see
                      >>> myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :)
                      >>>
                      >>>>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key
                      >>>> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then  
                      >>>> bit
                      >>>> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
                      >>>
                      >>> Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I  
                      >>> think
                      >>> make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up.
                      >>
                      >> In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject  
                      >> installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most  
                      >> popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2).
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >> Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207062711959
                      >> To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
                      >> .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
                      >> questions.
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > Oliver Ruhm
                      > +43 664 434 76 54
                      > www.wz-bfg.com
                      >
                      > Be safe with
                      > Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts
                      > www.rhesus.at
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207065299426
                      > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
                      > .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
                      > questions.
                      >
                      
                      --
                      "Beautiful is better than ugly."
                         -- The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
                      
                      Jodok Batlogg, Lovely Systems GmbH
                      Schmelzhütterstraße 26a, 6850 Dornbirn, Austria
                      mobile: +43 664 9636963, phone: +43 5572 908060
                      
                      
      • Re: Let's get the content in order

        from philikon on Mar 31, 2008 04:58 AM
        http://zode01.lovelysystems.com/
        
        
        On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:51 , Oliver Ruhm wrote:
        > Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo?
        >
        > On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
        >
        >> On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
        >>> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to  
        >>> help flesh out content,
        >>
        >> I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something  
        >> useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you  
        >> might've seen, I didn't come up with much.
        >>
        >> In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope  
        >> should be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you  
        >> ask the board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter,  
        >> the Grok people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more.   
        >> Naturally this can be steered (and I think this committee *should*  
        >> steer it), but perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and  
        >> produce key messages. Then somebody who's better with words can  
        >> flesh them out to pages.
        >>
        >>
        >> Some feedback about the site:
        >>
        >> * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading  
        >> style which has the same font size as the page title. I think they  
        >> should all have different sizes.
        >>
        >> * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the  
        >> "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but  
        >> even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> --
        >> Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735
        >> To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
        >> .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
        >> questions.
        >>
        >
        >
        > Oliver Ruhm
        > +43 664 434 76 54
        > www.wz-bfg.com
        >
        > Be safe with
        > Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts
        > www.rhesus.at
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953526717
        > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... 
        > .  Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for  
        > questions.
        >