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Hi guys, I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to help flesh out content, but in the meantime, I wanted to ask a few questions. I think our next goal needs to be to publish this to the community. The site is looking great, and editing content is nice and simple. If we can get the skeleton content in place, we can farm out provision of other content to other people and gain some wide community support. Here's what I think we should do: 1. Agree on the exact names and order of sections 2. Agree on the purpose of each section 3. Get a succinct statement of "what is Zope" and how do the various bits fit together (the Venn diagram) 4. Create a skeleton that includes space for sub-projects (Grok, CMF, Zope 2 etc) 5. Get Oliver and Denis to do a style review and maybe tidy up some of the CSS used for content 6. Let others lose on it! I think we should get 1-4 done this week; it's not a lot of work. To get the ball rolling, I'd like to suggest a change to the top-level folder structure (the main tabs). Currently, the sections read "home", "get", "taste", "learn", "community" and "foundation". I think this is a bit out of sync with the last wireframes. Here's what I would suggest we have: - Home: Front page, mostly marketing speak - Get: Download instructions for grokproject; a sub-page shows a zopeproject installation; another sub-page shows Zope 2 and CMF downloads - Taste: Some "interesting" code examples, screenshots and/or screencasts that make people excited about "the Zope way". - Projects: This page contains the venn diagram with some text about how the various sub-projects fit together. We then have a sub-folder for each sub-project where we have a standard set of headings: Get, Learn and Community. For some, it may just be a link (i.e. for Grok) - Community: Provides links to the various mailing lists and chat rooms - Foundation: Links to the Foundation web site (can be integrated later) The obvious casualty here is "Learn", which basically becomes a feature of each project. I think this makes sense, since the "Learn" for Grok is quite a bit different to the "Learn" for CMF, say. What do you think? Cheers, Martin -
On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to > help flesh out content, I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you might've seen, I didn't come up with much. In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more. Naturally this can be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and produce key messages. Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out to pages. Some feedback about the site: * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should all have different sizes. * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up.
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Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo? On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to >> help flesh out content, > > I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something > useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you > might've seen, I didn't come up with much. > > In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should > be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the > board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok > people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more. Naturally this > can be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but > perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and produce key > messages. Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out > to pages. > > > Some feedback about the site: > > * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style > which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should > all have different sizes. > > * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the > "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but > even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up. > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735 > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... > . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for > questions. > Oliver Ruhm +43 664 434 76 54 www.wz-bfg.com Be safe with Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts www.rhesus.at
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Oliver - http://zode01.lovelysystems.com has the latest version of the site at any time. Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with? Martin On 31/03/2008, Oliver Ruhm <oliver@...> wrote: > > Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo? > > > On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > > > On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > >> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to > >> help flesh out content, > > > > I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something > > useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you > > might've seen, I didn't come up with much. > > > > In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope should > > be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you ask the > > board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, the Grok > > people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more. Naturally this > > can be steered (and I think this committee *should* steer it), but > > perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and produce key > > messages. Then somebody who's better with words can flesh them out > > to pages. > > > > > > Some feedback about the site: > > > > * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading style > > which has the same font size as the page title. I think they should > > all have different sizes. > > > > * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the > > "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but > > even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up. > > > > > > > > -- > > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735 > > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... > > . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for > > questions. > > > > > > Oliver Ruhm > +43 664 434 76 54 > www.wz-bfg.com > > Be safe with > Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts > www.rhesus.at > > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953526717 > > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@.... Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for questions. > >
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On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:57 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with? Nowhere really. I wrote stuff, then discarded it again and played with the online site a little (tried to give the front page a shot as Oli designed it, and failed as you can see ;)).
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Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. Oliver - would you be able to provide a few images if I sketch them out? I'm thinking about sectoin heads here. Martijn, I'd be very happy if you could help with some of the text, since I know you've had a go at this before. Cheers, Martin On 31/03/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> wrote: > On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:57 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > > Philipp - where can we see the output of what you came up with? > > > Nowhere really. I wrote stuff, then discarded it again and played with > the online site a little (tried to give the front page a shot as Oli > designed it, and failed as you can see ;)). > > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206954272200 > > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@.... Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for questions. > >
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On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. > > Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my > previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least > Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this, but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise I'll never get over with them. > I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text.
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On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> wrote: > On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > > Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. > > > > Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my > > previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least > > Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. > > > I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this, > but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time > constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to > promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to > depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise > I'll never get over with them. Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code? I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :) > > I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. > > > Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key > messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit > by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text. Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I think make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up. Martin
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On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote: > On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> > wrote: >> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. >>> >>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my >>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least >>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. >> >> >> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this, >> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time >> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to >> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to >> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise >> I'll never get over with them. > > Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code? Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :) > I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure > because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see > myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :) > >>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. >> >> >> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key >> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then bit >> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text. > > Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I think > make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up. In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2).
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I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration. On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >> On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen <philipp@...> >> wrote: >>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >>>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. >>>> >>>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my >>>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at least >>>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. >>> >>> >>> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this, >>> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time >>> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to >>> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you to >>> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise >>> I'll never get over with them. >> >> Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code? > > Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :) > >> I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure >> because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see >> myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :) >> >>>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. >>> >>> >>> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key >>> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then >>> bit >>> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text. >> >> Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I >> think >> make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up. > > In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject > installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most > popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2). > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207062711959 > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... > . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for > questions. > Oliver Ruhm +43 664 434 76 54 www.wz-bfg.com Be safe with Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts www.rhesus.at
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On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Oliver Ruhm wrote: > > I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration. > Awww ... I think it's easily the best illustration of gonch I've ever seen on any web framework web site.
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On 01.04.2008, at 17:54, Oliver Ruhm wrote: > > I am sad because nobody likes my underwear illustration. i really like it!!!! > > > > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > >> On 1 Apr 2008, at 14:37 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >>> On 01/04/2008, Philipp von Weitershausen >>> <philipp@...> wrote: >>>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 16:52 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >>>>> Okay. I'm keen that we move this forward, though. >>>>> >>>>> Can we take a vote on the suggestion for section orde3ring in my >>>>> previous email? I'll take silence as consent, but I'd like at >>>>> least >>>>> Philipp and Martijn to weigh in. >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know why it's so important that I give my blessing to this, >>>> but I'll take it as a compliment :). Honestly, given my time >>>> constraints currently, I don't think it would be fair for me to >>>> promise to do something for the site nor would it be wise for you >>>> to >>>> depend on my input. I just have to prioritize my studies, otherwise >>>> I'll never get over with them. >>> >>> Studies schmudies. Maybe you should apply for Summer of Code? >> >> Summer of Code, Summer of Schmode :) >> >>> I want you and/or Martijn to give some blessing to the structure >>> because you are much more attuned to the Zope point of view. I see >>> myself representing Plone, or at least being a bit biased. :) >>> >>>>> I can set up a skeletal structure and do some wire frame writing. >>>> >>>> >>>> Haven't we already done that? I suggest trying to come up with key >>>> messages instead, and entering them directly into the sites. Then >>>> bit >>>> by bit they can be fleshed out to actual text. >>> >>> Agree. However, I suggested some changes to the structure that I >>> think >>> make more sense. If you agree with those, I can set that up. >> >> In general, yes. "Get" perhaps shouldn't show the grokproject >> installation instructions straight away, but link to the three most >> popular ways (grokproject, zopeproject, Zope2). >> >> >> >> -- >> Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207062711959 >> To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... >> . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for >> questions. >> > > > Oliver Ruhm > +43 664 434 76 54 > www.wz-bfg.com > > Be safe with > Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts > www.rhesus.at > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/04/1207065299426 > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... > . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for > questions. > -- "Beautiful is better than ugly." -- The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters Jodok Batlogg, Lovely Systems GmbH Schmelzhütterstraße 26a, 6850 Dornbirn, Austria mobile: +43 664 9636963, phone: +43 5572 908060
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http://zode01.lovelysystems.com/ On 31 Mar 2008, at 10:51 , Oliver Ruhm wrote: > Maybe someone could send me a link to the status quo? > > On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > >> On 30 Mar 2008, at 17:11 , Martin Aspeli wrote: >>> I'm still hopeful that Philipp will find some time this weekend to >>> help flesh out content, >> >> I spent a couple of hours each day trying to come up with something >> useful. I'm not very good with marketing words, though, so as you >> might've seen, I didn't come up with much. >> >> In particular, it's unclear to me what kind of vision of Zope >> should be the background for the new zope.org site. I'm sure if you >> ask the board, you'll get one opinion, if you ask Stephan Richter, >> the Grok people and the Plone folks, you'll get three more. >> Naturally this can be steered (and I think this committee *should* >> steer it), but perhaps we can come up with a general idea first and >> produce key messages. Then somebody who's better with words can >> flesh them out to pages. >> >> >> Some feedback about the site: >> >> * The Subheading style has a bigger font size than the Heading >> style which has the same font size as the page title. I think they >> should all have different sizes. >> >> * Navigating through folders is cumbersome. At some point I got the >> "Navigation" box on the left (which I don't think is intended), but >> even then it took two or three clicks to get one level up. >> >> >> >> -- >> Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953380735 >> To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... >> . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for >> questions. >> > > > Oliver Ruhm > +43 664 434 76 54 > www.wz-bfg.com > > Be safe with > Rhesus Bloodtype Shirts > www.rhesus.at > > > > -- > Archive: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux/lists/zope-org-redux/archive/2008/03/1206953526717 > To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to zorg-redux@... > . Please contact zorg-redux-manager@... for > questions. >
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